Friday, June 29, 2012

HHS Mandate Dialogue

I've been having an amiable debate with a proponent for the HHS Mandate on another blog.  It was going on before I joined in but it's really made me think about what I believe in.  There are a couple of women who are participating who are pro-choice and believe those against this mandate "are not dealing with reality or live in a skewed reality."  Through our dialogue, it's raised a number of very interesting questions that I have little understanding or no answer for so I'm hoping to find help here.  I'm paraphrasing here but you'll get the gist of the conversation.  I should preface this by stating, this woman is a doctor and agnostic in her views.

1.  It was said that the "Catholic institutions are not going to be paying for these services that the healthcare provider would be."  My response was that the Catholic institution buys the insurance package that is given to their employees.  And in the last 10 plus years, the employee pays a portion of the premium with the employer paying the rest.  Thereby a Catholic institution is paying for and giving their employees a healthcare package that includes contraception, sterilization, abortion..etc. which they find morally unacceptable.
Am I understanding this correctly?

2.  It was said that "the Catholic Church wants to keep church and state separate yet they want the tax exemptions that come with being a church."  Plus "they don't have to pay taxes on the donations received yet they have luxuries such as cars, houses and airplanes.  It's a double standard."  To be honest, I have no idea how the tax exemptions work but I responded with "that may be the case with the megachurches, tv evangelists and perhaps the Vatican and cardinals and yes, I agree that is a double standard, but the typical priest does not live that lifestyle.  They live in a small house on the church property that is not theirs but belongs to the parish.

3.  Being pro-life and Christian automatically means "we are imposing our beliefs on others while the pro-choice side only wants abortion as an option.  They also do NFP."  Well, I went into "the big money making machine of the abortion industry using my own clinic in my city and how many abortions are done in this one facility each week.  I even included statistics of how many legal abortions have been reported since 1973.  So, I don't really buy into that mantra."

4.  Here's my own question:  "What percentage of entities are we talking about that would like to remove contraception, sterilization, abortion..etc.?  Against the larger workforce, I was thinking it was only a small percentage of christian institutions, schools and charities.  Does anyone know the answer to this one?

I've not been offended at all in our dialogue because it made me think and think hard on what I believe an why.  What are your thoughts?



  1. Noreen, this is so depressing! I just want to cry! Pray, Pray, Pray!! Can we do anymore? I wish I could!
    Well, on a happier subject, I dropped in to let you know I awarded you the versatile blogger award!
    God Bless!

  2. Noreen, WTG! Have you checked out, or They have great resources about many of your questions.

    Do these people realize how much free service the Catholic Church provides in the areaas of healthcare, education, social services, etc. etc.? Think of the Missionaries of Charity and the Missionaries of the Poor. Who would care for all of these people living in the street, starving etc.? What about all of our soup kitchens, shelters, etc. The government gives a drop in the bucket to what is given by the Church and those who donate.

    As for the Vatican, the pope doesn't own anything, and he lives in a simple papal apartment for the length of time he serves. Nothing ever belongs to him. When he travels, he needs a private plane and security.

    These people drive me crazy! EWTN insures all of its employees, without coverage for birth control, abortion, and sterilization. Obamacare would mandate that they, and other Catholic institutions who serve or employ anyone who isn't Catholic, pay for these services which are an abomination to Catholics.

    Catholic hospitals treat people for free all the time. I know, because they wrote off thousands that my parents owed but were unable to pay at the end of their lives.

    God bless you, Noreen! It's not easy to dialogue with people who are stridently pro-abortion.'s not a choice. So many women are coerced...especailly teenagers forced by parents and boyfriends. And, what's up with not even being offered a chance to view your child on ultrasound, or given any medical facts about the risks of abortions...such as dozens of studies showing a link between it and breast cancer,a s well as high risk pregnancies later on...early miscarriages, etc.

    Noreen, come to my blog and read about the statue of Mary which started bleeding and crying in my town. I have seen it. My sister saw a picture on a man's camera last night which showed the imprint of a tiny fetus on Mary's cheek on the side of her face which has been bleeding. Don't know wha you think about such things. I'm keeping a wait and see attitude, but I can't deny that there is a beautiful peace there, and also a deep sadness.

    Good luck with your debate! Thanks for being out there in the trenches!

    Patricia :)